Right Turns on Red Arrows: A PSA

"pedal-force" (pedal-force)
08/20/2014 at 12:48 • Filed to: None

In some states (North Carolina for sure, I think New York and California, probably others) it is illegal to turn right on a red arrow. It's the same as running a red light. So if I choose not to, don't honk at me, don't flip me off, don't go around me, don't be an asshole. If you want to go when you're at the front and risk the ticket, fine by me, but you can't make me go.

You also shouldn't honk at people who aren't turning right on a normal red light. It's their OPTION to go right on red, not their requirement. If they don't feel it's safe, they don't have to go.

I've gotten a very expensive ticket for turning right at a place where no right turns (at all, stupid downtown) are allowed, so I'm probably more cautious than most.

Here's the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for North Carolina.

No vehicle shall make a right turn at a red arrow unless the movement is allowed by an appropriate sign (MUTCD Sections 4D.04 and 4D.05).

DISCUSSION (34)

Nibby > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:52

I got a red light ticket for turning right on a red light arrow... and the guy behind me turned as well.

thebigbossyboss > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:53

Here you can turn right on red lights unless there is a sign that says you can't. You can also turn left sometimes too.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:54

You also shouldn't honk at people who aren't turning right on a normal red light. It's their OPTION to go right on red, not their requirement. If they don't feel it's safe, they don't have to go.

If I see people doing this for a prolonged period of time when there is ample space, I will honk. 99% of the time, they are sitting not because they don't feel safe/comfortable pulling out, but because they aren't paying attention. And at a certain point, it's just rude to those behind you.

If someone's at a red arrow, never. The law requires them to stop, I stop, and I would never get mad at them for doing so.

pedal-force > Nibby
08/20/2014 at 12:54

I don't think a lot of people know it. It makes sense if you think about it though. My wife was the one who told me, I used to turn right on red arrows all the time. Old guy in a minivan yelled, honked, then went around yesterday. I ended up missing the next light because I was now behind him.

carcrasher88 > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:55

I live in NY, and I've never seen a right turn red light arrow, only left.

We do have 'No Right Turn on Red' signs, though.

pedal-force > thebigbossyboss
08/20/2014 at 12:55

On a red arrow? I'd be careful and check your state code to make sure (good luck finding it).

jvirgs drives a Subaru > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:55

§ 46.2-835. Right turn on steady red light after stopping.

Notwithstanding the provisions of § 46.2-833 , except where a traffic control device is placed prohibiting turns on steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red circular signal, after coming to a full stop, may cautiously enter the intersection and make a right turn.

Notwithstanding the provisions of § 46.2-833 , except where a traffic control device is placed permitting turns on a steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red arrow, after coming to a full stop, shall remain standing until a signal to proceed is shown.

This is Virginia's

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:56

Exactly. That's the point of it being a red *arrow*, and not a normal red, idiots.

Which downtown? Raleigh area, Asheville, Winston Salem, or somewhere else? I haven't spent that much time in the Raleigh area downtown, but sections of Asheville are beyond bizarre (only jughandle in the state!).

pedal-force > sm70- why not Duesenberg?
08/20/2014 at 12:56

True, and I'll sometimes give a little tap of the horn myself if it's obviously been clear for a while, or I can see they're looking down at their phone or whatever.

pedal-force > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/20/2014 at 12:58

Charlotte. It's lousy with no right/no left turn signs. If you miss a left that you needed, you have to go about 8 blocks before you can get another one (I wish I was joking). If you try to go right and then loop around, you may or may not be successful.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:59

Sounds like North Avenue in Atlanta.

jariten1781 > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 12:59

I've never seen a red arrow that wasn't accompanied by a 'no right on red' sign. These exist?

pedal-force > jvirgs drives a Subaru
08/20/2014 at 13:00

Thanks. So illegal there too. By "traffic control device" I assume they mean "sign"? In North Carolina they can put up a sign allowing right turns on red arrows, just to muddy the waters a bit more.

Takuro Spirit > thebigbossyboss
08/20/2014 at 13:01

Here too, unless the turn left arrow is red.

The intersection by where I work is one of the few "NO TURN ON RED" right turns that I make, and I can see why. Three lanes in all directions and shitty visibility. People turn right there on red all the time though, and one of our drivers got honked and screamed at once, until he got out of the car, pointed up at the sign, and told them to STFU.

pedal-force > jariten1781
08/20/2014 at 13:01

All over the place in Charlotte. Perhaps it's a quirk of the local DOT engineers. I have a couple on my commute.

Takuro Spirit > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:02

Here we can't. But they started putting up those bullshit flashing yellow arrows. Confuses the SHIT out of people.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:02

I've had people honk at no turn on reds, I have a simple fool proof method to make them feel stupid. I roll down the window, put my arm out, and point at the sign. I don't flip them off, I just point at the sign.

As for right turn on normal red, If there's no one coming for miles, I will probably honk. If it's traffic and there's even anyone in sight - it's on them, I'm staying out of it.

In Michigan we have a lot of middle of the road U turns through medians that have a light at them. Typically you're turning left to go onto the "one way" street on the other side of the median, so a normal u turn. You can legally turn left on red at all of those if it is safe to do so (unless otherwise posted).

I like to mess with people and see if they'll go at one of them though. It has an option to go straight on to a 2 way street from this turn around (not far from my house). I don't honk or anything but I'll inch up a couple times and see if I can bait them into thinking I'm impatiently waiting for them to go. Haha, it's only worked a handful of times in over 4 years, and none of them have gotten caught/given tickets.

RallyWrench > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:06

Right on red is legal in CA, once you've come to a stop. If it's not permitted in a given intersection, it's posted.

pedal-force > Takuro Spirit
08/20/2014 at 13:07

Flashing yellow is a favorite around here. I grew up with them so I'm used to them. I know why they do it (option of giving protected left at certain times of day without needing to always give it) but it's certainly confusing if you aren't used it.

Takuro Spirit > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:09

Those and the roundabouts are really screwing with drivers around here. Meanwhile I'm just like BRAAAAAAAAAAAP!

pedal-force > RallyWrench
08/20/2014 at 13:09

Wrong. Right on red arrow is illegal in CA.

(c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11…

RallyWrench > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:12

Hm, ok. I had always thought it was same as on a red light, because those are always clearly posted. Not many red arrows around here though, so what do I know. Thanks.

pedal-force > Takuro Spirit
08/20/2014 at 13:15

Haha, going through a new roundabout around here is HILARIOUS. I'm from the North and visit enough to know how to use one (I'm also not a complete moron, although my wife might disagree). They've started adding them more and more, and it's always fun to watch.

One thing that I'm genuinely worried about is a new interchange they're building near me that uses a diverging diamond interchange.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging…

I've never driven (or even seen) one of these. And with the stupidity of people, I think it might be scary the first few times.

Takuro Spirit > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:17

Oh, I've been through one of those. Catches you off guard, but yeeeeaaaah I can see where people will fuck that up royally if left to their own judgement, and not the car in front of them.

NaturallyAspirated > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:28

You're correct. I got a ticket for right on red arrow here in SoCal.

Fortunately, I was able to prove to the judge that the intersection in question has a round red light and not a red right turn arrow. The cop who gave me the ticket was mistaken.

But yeah, it's totally not legal. And I have been honked at for stopping before.

pedal-force > NaturallyAspirated
08/20/2014 at 13:33

Did you "convince" him, or was it actually a round red?

NaturallyAspirated > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 13:43

It was actually a round red. I went back to the intersection and took pictures :).

Corovius > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 14:02

I was under the impression that (at least in California) you may turn right on a red arrow, only after a complete stop (i.e stop sign), and also if there is no sign indicating prohibition thereof specifically. The 'arrow' traffic typically means your right of way is ensured... Others yield to you on a green arrow, and accident responsibility would fall on them if you end up in a crash. Vice versa if you crash making the decision to go on a red arrow.

pedal-force > Corovius
08/20/2014 at 14:04

I think this is the problem, a lot of people just don't know.

Right on red arrow is illegal in CA.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11…

jvirgs drives a Subaru > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 14:19

Yes normally most will have a solid red with a sign saying no right on red from this lane.

Now with the red arrow, there usually isn't a sign

desertdog5051 > pedal-force
08/20/2014 at 14:26

In most states, you cannot turn right on a red arrow because that means other traffic has a protected turn in their direction. Jeesh, common sense.

pedal-force > desertdog5051
08/20/2014 at 14:32

Around here there are cases where you're turning into an area that doesn't have a turn at all (T intersection, turning right from the vertical of the T onto the cap). So it's not a protected turn thing (and U-turns aren't even allowed, so there isn't anything but straight traffic) so I'm not entirely sure why they did it in one place. It's got good visibility.

user314 > pedal-force
08/21/2014 at 14:15

Red arrows are an uncommon sight here in PA. Unless a "No Turn On Red" sign is posted, right turns can be made. 'Course, we also do Pittsburgh Left s, so YMMV.

pedal-force > user314
08/21/2014 at 15:47

Some (I assume) transplants have attempted Pittsburgh Lefts around here sometimes, with mixed results.